Abdal Hakim Bashar the head of the Kurdish Syrian National Council (KNC), an umbrella group of 15 of the 17 total Kurdish parties in Syria, is confident of the fall of the Assad regime. A veteran dissident, Bashar came to Washington last week for meetings with senior US officials, where his views were received “warmly" by the Obama adminstration. He tells “Al-Hayat" that the Council is willing to compromise on issues such as political decentralization, yet still emphasizing that this path is the best guarantee for minority groups in Syria, mainly the Alawites. Bashar talks about futile attempts from Assad regime to reach out to his group, and rejects completely any military intervention to end the crisis. Following is the interview conducted by Omar Hossino and Ilhan Tanir, authors of "The Decisive Minority: The Role of Syria's Kurds in the. Anti-Assad Revolution" , a Henry Jackson Society Report: Did you discuss with the Obama adminstration the “common declaration" that the opposition is looking to release in their first meeting? Are you asking for political decentralization as a condition for joining in this declaration as the Kurdish Syrian National Council? Our view of the declaration and we talked to the US adminstration about it, is that it should recognize the Kurdish people in Syria as a people.It would have a clear message to the other parts of Syrian society - the Christian, the Alawi, and Druze - that the change in Syria will be in all of their interests as well as for all. And that this declaration would become a document that will be a foundation for a constitution after the fall of the regime, God-willing. And that it would have international and Arab League guarantees. One of the reasons why the Alawis, the Druze, and other minorities have not participated in the revolution is fear of the future. We need to give them guarantees about the future. If they would enter the revolution they do not know or have a vision of what it will look like after the regime falls. For them, they must know if they will benefit after the regime falls. We at the KNC want the document to be clear and not to have vague generalities - that when Alawis, or Druze read it they will know that they are guaranteed a safe future in this document. Regarding political decentralization. We will defend this until the end. Because in our conviction, not only as Kurds, political decentralization gives guarantees to the other parts of society with regard to their future after the regime falls and encourages them to enter the revolution. I won't say if it will be a condition or a non-condition just that we will defend it. But I believe that we will reach an understanding with regards to this which can have a great number of visions. On political decentralization let me give you the example of the Alawites. The vast majority of Alawites today are strong supporters of the regime with the exception of some intellectuals and personal figures. If we succeed in disconnecting the Alawis from the regime then we succeeded in toppling the regime. How do we succeed in disconnecting them from the regime? Through giving them guarantees of protection - and one guarantee of protection is political decentralization. They are afraid that the substitute for the regime will be Sunni Arab and will seek revenge from them. When you have political decentralization then they have a special uniqueness in their regions. Without political decentralization we are going to have a long and hard conflict in Syria after the regime falls, especially from the Alawites, and from the areas and regions with minorities. Because they are afraid of a sectarian tyranny of the majority? Yes. This issue is an issue for which we have seen actual killing, and the Alawites are now accused of being with the regime. And the Alawites before during this regime had a special status in Syria. Therefore it is required that we give them guarantees. And it is also required that we don't blame the Alawites as a collective with all of the crimes of the regime. We need to give them guarantees except for those who are known to be guilty in crimes against the Syrian people and their rights, this is different, no matter whether they are Alawi or else, in accordance with the law. Did the US adminstration respond positively to your position? Yes. In our final meeting with Assistant Secretary of State Jeff Feltman I told him that we see the regime falling in the way that I have stated. He said we are “very comfortable with this position." They are very comfortable yet they keep giving more legitimacy and diplomatic recognition to the Syrian National Council, the same body that has not budged on the issue political decentralization? I believe that their opinion will change with regard to this. You asked them to change their opinion? No. We asked them that they participate in uniting the opposition. How? With a political document.... What exactly do you want from the Americans for you to reach such a document? Pressure. Pressure on the SNC. Pressure on Turkey. Pressure on the Arab League. Yes, this pressure is necessary. We asked them to pressure all parties that have ties with America to make it easier for us to reach a common document that guarantees the rights of all Syrians and all parts of Syria in its future. Did you see when you talked to the the administration that they might put pressure on the SNC on the issue of political decentralization or recognizing other concerns of the Kurds? The Americans of course didn't say they would put pressure but the Americans in my belief understood our positions. We met with the White House, the State Department, many members of Congress, and many think tanks. Robert Ford, the U.S. Ambassador to Syria, told us that the White House and the State Department are very comfortable with our position on the Syrian situation. They are very comfortable but we don't know how they will act. Our obligation is just to send them the message. That this is in Syria's interest and this is how we see things. Both Hasan Abdul Azim of the NCB and Burhan Ghalioun of the SNC have rejected federalism while both bodies in recent weeks now concede they are for a republic with “decentralized principles". Hacked SNC emails reportedly indicate them saying “we gave the Kurds all that we could and that they would have to change their position." What are your thoughts on this? This is the problem. We need to get rid of the phrase “we gave them". The SNC are not the governors of Syria. We are searching for a new social contract that allows all the different parts of society to join in the nation. There is no “we gave them" and no “they gave us" in the new Syria. I do not ask my rights from Burhan Ghalioun nor from the Muslim Brotherhood nor from Hasan Abdul Azim. I ask for rights for all of the Syrian people. I am a Syrian Kurd. We want there to be a document that give all parts of society their rights. We do not ask this from anyone, this is our right. Burhan Ghalioun said he is with decentralization. But the KNC said this is not enough that you want “political decentralization." Explain to me the difference. No. Burhan Ghalioun said he is with administrative decentralization. There is a huge difference between administrative decentralization and political decentralization. Administrative decentralization is currently implemented in Syria in the system which allows local administration. Political decentralization then is a form of federalism but without using the word federalism? No. It could be federalism. It could be more powers to the localities. It is defined really as distributing privileges between the central governments and lower levels of government. Distributing privileges that are political, economic, social, educational, and administrative between the central government and lower governments on specific issues as will be defined by the constitution. What is your strategy to reach political decentralization? I believe that even if we did nothing the Syrian opposition will eventually come to the same conclusion that we have. I just hope that it is not too late. They will eventually realize that political decentralization is the solution for Syria. Why? Because if the regime falls, and this is my personal conviction, the Alawites without political decentralization will not be able to be secured in their rights. Has the Assad regime contacted you? The regime has contacted us more than one time, many times. Twice they invited us to meetings with them, we refused. One time they invited five of us members, we rejected it, and one time they invited the entire Kurdish movement, and we rejected. One time Farouq al-Sharaa had this initiative to meet with the opposition and talk, and we rejected this also. We will not talk to the regime. There is only one way we would talk to them - if the entire Syrian opposition, in all of its factions, decided to talk to the regime then we would talk to the regime with them. There will not be a Kurdish dialogue with the regime by itself. This is a decision we have taken. What are the borders of such provinces for political decentralization? The current borders of the 14 provinces of Syria? These specific issues it is too early to get into. For now we need to get into the general principles of a new Syria. This new document will be taken as a starting principle that will later be described in how it will be implemented and this will have to do with experts and administrators and legal scholars who will help put into exact law what these issues mean. Barzani, who is close to the KNC, after he met Erdogan, we see people talking about a change of position on the KNC's emphasis on political decentralization. Can you explain? Our position did not change in a major way. We released a platform on the transition. But in our view it is impossible for our platform, or the SNC's, or the NCB's (National Coordination Body) to be accepted in full. Thus consensus is required. In such a consensus each opposition group will defend their point of view but in the end I believe we need to reach a consensus for Syria. There are essential points and non-essential points that we have. If we do not reach consensus on political decentralization then we will demand it at a later point in time. However there are many demands that we have - political decentralization, secularism, constitutional equality between genders, freedom of religious belief for all Syrians, these are all issues for all Syrians and Kurdish Syrian issues. These are the issues we are searching for but when writing the constitution we want this text to be a foundation of a new Syria that secures the rights for all Syrians. But we as a council understand it is impossible for us to have all of our demands accepted at one time. So we will tell our point of view now and in the future. At the same time we want to reach an accord with the different parts of the opposition but we understand in a way which is reasonable. We still believe political decentralization is the only solution for two things - for letting all parts of society enter the revolution, and for the success of a pluralistic Syria which protects all after the regime falls. What are your relations with the PYD (Kurdish Democratic Union Party), who are affiliated with the PKK (Kurdish Worker's Party)? In the very beginning of the revolution we made an agreement with the PYD under the name of the Kurdish Movement in Syria. At the time of establishing the KNC, they were with us in the dialogue sessions. But at the last minute they pulled out before we established the Syrian Kurdish National Council. We have disagreements on points of view with them on numerous matters. But we as the KNC decided to create a committee for dialogue with the PYD to attempt to get our points of view closer on the essential issues or at the very least will attempt to prevent a conflict between us. What is your opinion as the KNC on the Free Syrian Army? We are with a peaceful revolution and not for the militarization of the revolution. They say there are some Kurdish battalions of the FSA? No there is not. But there are videos documenting this. There are a lot of videos on the internet that do not exist on the ground. I as the KDP, we have a very strong relation with Masoud Barazani, we have the strongest ties with Barazani of any Syrian Kurdish party, and at the same time we are against any arming at all of the Syrian people. Are you for foreign intervention? No. No way. We believe if there is a political document that guarantees and secures for all of the parts of the Syrian people rights which are clear, then all parts of the population will participate in the revolution and that this will lead to the fall of the regime. The Syrian regime is not able to assert its authority over all of Syria. And this document will also lead to the disconnecting of the Alawis and the regime. If the Alawis know that the regime is weak and on its way out and has guarantees that they will live in freedom and dignity they will leave the regime. Such a document will encourage all parts of society to enter the revolution and let the regime fall. The Free Syrian Army wasn't created by a political decision. It is the result of defections from the Syrian army of officers who rejected the killing going on of civilians. But in reality, the Free Syrian Army outside of Syria is just a name, and inside of Syria refers to numerous groups with numerous loyalties. The fear is that after the revolution ends these different groups under the banner of Free Syrian Army will turn into militias for civil war and internal killings as happened in Lebanon and Iraq. We are afraid of this. As for foreign intervention, we do not want to destroy the Syrian economy and army and its arms because its arms are national arms. Foreign intervention means destroying the Syrian army, radars and weapons. Even if it came from the U.N. Security Council? Our conviction is that a common document giving guarantees to all groups is the shortest and most secure way to reach the fall of the regime and for saving Syria in the long term after the regime falls. And you are against a Turkish buffer zone? Yes. What can Turkey do? Turkey is our neighbor and has a long border with Syria. We want good relations with Turkey. But we believe that Turkey's role in the Syrian revolution has not been positive. It has supported one faction of the opposition, and strongly and this is a major cause of the division of the opposition. On the issue of the Kurds, Turkey does not want constitutional guarantees to the Kurds of Syria. We met with the Turks and told them at the beginning that you were very afraid of the experiment of Iraqi Kurdistan, and now they are one of your best friends. This can happen again. We Kurds live on a border of 1500 kilometers on the border with Turkey. We may be real partners in this issue - politically, and economically. Those areas would be made very, very secure to Turkey.
