QAZI Hussein Ahmed is the former chief of the Jamaat e-Islami, having stepped down after Syed Munawwar Hussien was elected to the post two months ago. The JI is against the military operation to eliminate the Pakistani Taleban militants holed up in the Swat Valley. Last Thursday the JI was among 22 religious parties of the All Parties Conference (APC) that demanded in a meeting in Lahore, attended by Ahmed, an immediate halt to the Swat operation and peaceful resolution of the conflict through dialogue. The APC also demanded that the government revise its internal and external policies, particularly in relation to the US-led war on terror. Ahmed said at the meeting that it would be wrong not to give the Nizam-e-Adl Resolution sufficient time to be implemented. He said that the NWFP troubles are part of an American conspiracy to destabilize Pakistan. In this interview with Ahmed, conducted last week in Islamabad, he speaks up for Islamization according to the Constitution of Pakistan and for an end to Talebanization and Americanization. He squarely blames the government and the military for creating the “excuse” for militancy. He also said that American and Indian mafias have penetrated the Pakistani Taleban, which is in essence a “reaction of the people against the atrocities and the unjust and unIslamic way in which the government is running the country.”Q: What is your take on the war that has broken out in the northwest? A: Actually the people don't understand the government's policy. They (the government) have encouraged some people there to create some disturbance and resistance. And then, when it got out of their hands, they began using excessive force – they wanted excessive force. They themselves say that the actual number of people creating the disturbance is not more than 1,000 Q: You mean the militants? A: Yes. the armed militants , not more than 1,000 in Swat, Dir and Buner. Yet more than 500,000 people are ousted from their own homes. This is a large exodus of people. The villages and towns are bombarded indiscriminately there. There is a big problem. Q: Some reports say that 1.5 million people could eventually flee the war zone. A: Yes, 1.5 million will be uprooted. Innocent people have been killed. The real militant group is not targeted. This has never been done anywhere in the world – to bombard cities and towns just because some people are hiding in these places, to force the people to leave their homes? If these people were anti-Pakistan or against the Muslim nation, then surely it would be a big problem. But they are not. They are Islam-loving people, Pakistani people patriotic to the Pakistani nation. They do not have any other place to go. They cannot go to China or Afghanistan or Iran. Q: What is your stand on the Pakistani Taleban? Do you support them? A: We think that the Taleban rose in Pakistan as the reaction of the people against the atrocities and the unjust and un-Islamic way in which the government is running the country. The people are not happy with this government and the judiciary. There are small and trivial cases of the people lying in the courts for years. People come and go and nothing is decided by the courts. There is also bribery in the courts. Q: But aren't there criminals, gangsters, drug runners and arms dealers among the Taleban. A: This phenomena is created by certain quarters. And the enemy has also penetrated the Taleban. Q: From across the border? A: From the Americans, Indians and all the people who want to create chaos in Pakistan – they have got the chance. We don't know who has prepared this ground but everybody has penetrated it. All the outlaws and bad characters are there in this open field. They can receive a salary and practice a type of gangsterism through this movement. They can create an atmosphere in which they can extract money from people. Q: Isn't the drug mafia also involved? A: The international mafia is there but the real culprit is the civil and military establishment of Pakistan. They have also penetrated into this game. Responsible people have told me that even the Americans have formed a mafia here. They can target any person. Through this mafia – the American and Indian forces – they can catch him, they can sell him, they can kill him, and they can use him for getting some money. Q: How do you think this crises can be solved? Through a military or a political solution? A: No, not through a military solution. The military is aggravating the situation. If 1.5 million people are forced to leave their homes and become internally displaced persons, calm cannot return to these areas. Q: Do you expect another crises like what was caused because of the flood of refugees from Afghanistan during the war against the Soviets? A: The places occupied by the Afghani refugees have already been taken by the internally displaced people. Q: Are there militants among them? A: I don't think that there are militants among these refugees. They are Islam-loving and nation-loving people. They will not resort to arms. But the government should use their wisdom and not force them to take up arms against the army. Q: What do you expect from the international community? A: We want the Americans to leave this country. The Pakistani government should not side with the Americans. This is the solution of the problem. Because, if the Pakistani government says that we are allied with the Americans and this is a war on terror, then the Taleban or others will induce the people to believe that since they (the government) are America's allies, to fight against them is like fighting against America. So this will create an atmosphere in which they can create an excuse for the militants. Q: Are you suggesting that former military ruler and President Pervez Musharraf was also fighting terrorism of behalf of the Americans? A: Yes. Q: And you say that the current government is now fighting their own people on behalf of America? A: Yes, and they can't win this war against their own people. To fight our own people is difficult but to fight our own people for the American cause is more difficult – it is impossible. Q: So, what is your forecast? The government has gone for the military operation. A: Yes, and they have done more than this – what they are doing will not solve this problem. Q: But don't you think that Talebanization is a threat to Pakistan, a genuine threat? A: No, this was created either by America or – this is a puzzle, everybody in Pakistan is puzzled by this phenomenon. It is impossible for two to three thousand people to take on the army. As I have said earlier, the Pakistani intelligence had created a limited phenomenon for some of their own interests, but then it went out of their hands and became their own enemy. For example, the MQM (Mutthehida Qaumi Movement) in Karachi was created by Zia ul-Haq against the Jamaat-e-Islami, which had a strong base there. Zia ul-Haq did not want another Islamic force in the country who could challenge his authority, so he created the MQM in Karachi. Then the Americans and Indians penetrated this situation to weaken the Jamaat-e-Islami. We had the strongest students organization in Karachi – the Islami Jamiat-e-Talaba – and he (Zia) banned it. We were very strong among the laborers – the National Labor Federation – we were in the PIA (Pakistan International Airlines), in Karachi Port, in the Rangers and in the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agents) – and he banned all these trade unions. And also he created Sufi Muhammad. He was a member of the Jamaat-e-Islami and he was elected as counsellor of Jamaat-e-Islami in Dir district. He was created and he was used. He created trouble by saying either Jihad or Shariah, that democracy is Kufr and to take part in elections is Kufr – bad. And this was the only time we lost the elections in Dir – the only one time, because of this person. Q: So, you don't think he is a good man? A: He is a simple man, I didn't say he is bad man, but he has been pushed in this area. Q: By whom? A: By the intelligence agencies. During Zia ul-Haq's time he was created. And then he and his followers went to Afghanistan in order to fight against the Americans. Hundreds of his followers were killed and he could not return to Pakistan – he was happy that he was jailed for eight years, He was later arrested by the central government in the tribal areas. During the rule of both Nawaz Sharif and Benazir, he was in jail. Q: Isn't there a serious threat to Pakistan from Talebanization? A: If there is real Islamization according to our constitution, Pakistan will be safe. In order to save Pakistan from Talebanization, from Americanization, from dismemberment, from Balochistan independence, from the MQM threats, and from all these-Fitnas – in order to save it there should be integration, there should be Islamization – according to the Constitution of Pakistan. Q: Not according to what the Taleban seem to want? A: Not according to the Taleban. If the recommendations of the Islamic Ideological Council are implemented, then all these problems will be solved. But they are not sincere in implementing these recommendations. Q: How do you see the new US administration? Do you think the Obama administration has a solution for this region? A: If the government wants to save Pakistan, Pakistan should be stable and should not disintegrate. There is no other option for the government. The only way is to apologize to the Americans – say we cannot be your allies in this war, we cannot kill our own people and all the assistance advanced by you, the Americans, is not for our good but for our destruction. The only option is to say farewell to the American alliance. The only guarantee that the Americans can take from us is that this area will not be used as training camps for militants against Europe or America. This guarantee can be given when they leave us alone, and this can be arranged in Pakistan through the Pakistani leadership. Q: Are you blaming the current government? A: Its policy is not successful. This policy is not the policy of a civilian government, this is the policy of the military which is not the solution of our problem.
